Proposal Archive
The following proposal has been discussed and is now marked as resolved. The page has been protected and now serves as an archive. Do not edit this page.
Date Resolved: August 18, 2014
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Introduction
I cancelled the previous discussion (see here) to include AW10's alternative to this issue.
There are three options here:
- Option A. Link directly to the article; pros include:
- Avoids double redirects in case an article is moved
- Avoids red links if a redirect is deleted
- The "WhatLinksHere" feature can better generate direct links, instead of redirects
- Hovering over a link shows the URL to the redirect rather than the actual page
- Option B. Link to redirects; pros include:
- Shorter and easier/faster to type
- Less invisible text in the code
- Option C: Use {{Link|ARTICLE}} template to simplify the entire matter; pros include:
- Example: {{Link|SpongeBob}} would link to {{Link|SpongeBob}}
- Template can include a database of all possible link redirects
- Simplifies all the issues associated with options A and B
- Easy to implement
- Avoids double redirects in case an article is moved
- Avoids red links if a redirect is deleted
- The "WhatLinksHere" feature can better generate direct links, instead of redirects
- Hovering over a link shows the URL to the redirect rather than the actual page
- Less invisible text in the code
This discussion will end on Sunday, July 20, 2014 at 8 p.m., eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 23:36, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Due to lack of consensus, I am extending this discussion to Sunday, July 27, 2014 at 8 p.m., eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 04:19, July 21, 2014 (UTC)
We are deadlocked, 0-0-0, so I am extending this another week, to Sunday, August 3, 2014 at 8 p.m., eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 23:08, July 27, 2014 (UTC)
This has been extended to Sunday, August 10, 2014 at 8 p.m., eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 12:12, August 7, 2014 (UTC)
This has been extended to Sunday, August 17, 2014 at 8 p.m., eastern time. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 23:00, August 10, 2014 (UTC)
Discussion
A. Link directly to article
Support - I like this one, but I like Option C better. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 23:38, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Support - per AMK. Nicko756 (M•C•E) Sign! 23:45, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Oppose - Many new users will forget to place down the correct link, and mistakingly make a red link. JosephHawk 📪 01:49, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
Extremely Strong Oppose - 120d Talk Contribs 10:54, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Support - This is my preferred method. 18:13,7/17/2014 Muchacha (W•C)OVERTIME?!!!
Oppose - What's the point of redirects then? AW10 Talk Contribs E-Mail 13:37,7/25/2014
Oppose - Make use of redirects. --Spongebob456 talk 19:24, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
Extremely Strong Oppose - Seems silly not to use redirects, they're there for a reason. Auron May the odds be ever in your favor! 02:38,8/23/2015
Oppose - Redirects can be helpful... ZeoSpark Talk Contribs Edits 00:18,8/13/2014
B. Link to redirects
Oppose - I never liked this idea. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 23:38, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Oppose - I agree with Muchacha. If there are two articles with the same name and one of which is an episode name (ex: Bubble Buddy), then linking it would result in linking to the episode rather than the character. This could only be fixed if one does this: [[Bubble Buddy (character)|Bubble Buddy]] as this will link to the character. Nicko756 (M•C•E) Sign! 23:45, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Support - Redirects were made for a reason. Wikipedia uses them, which is 10x larger than ESB. JosephHawk 📪 01:49, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
Extremely Strong Support - I agree with JosephHawk. 120d Talk Contribs 10:56, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Oppose - If somebody typed "SpongeBob" or "SpongeBob SquarePants" while referring to the series, it might redirect to the character article instead, and vice-versa. 18:13,7/17/2014 Muchacha (W•C)OVERTIME?!!!
Support - That's what redirects are for, to link to them. AW10 Talk Contribs E-Mail 13:37,7/25/2014
Extremely Strong Support - We have redirects for a reason. So much easier to use. --Spongebob456 talk 19:24, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
Extremely Strong Support - Why would wikia have redirects if they weren't meant to be used? Auron May the odds be ever in your favor! 02:38,8/23/2015
Oppose - This might not work out so well. ZeoSpark Talk Contribs Edits 00:18,8/13/2014
C. User {{Link}}
Here is what AW10 said "I would like we put all redirects to some database that will Template:Link use. So "{{Link|SpongeBob}}" links to "SpongeBob SquarePants". However, it will be too demanindg for users that doesn't know source code. Also, if this doesn't pass, I would like to use redirects since many users have got used to it and I don't think we will benefit from not using them."
Strong Support - a much better alternative. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 23:38, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Support - per AMK Nicko756 (M•C•E) Sign! 23:45, July 13, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Oppose - Overcomplicated. JosephHawk 📪 01:49, July 14, 2014 (UTC)
Oppose - I agree with JosephHawk. 120d Talk Contribs 10:57, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
Strong Oppose - Per above. 18:13,7/17/2014 Muchacha (W•C)OVERTIME?!!!
Support - My suggestion. AW10 Talk Contribs E-Mail 13:37,7/25/2014
Oppose - --Spongebob456 talk 19:24, August 3, 2014 (UTC)
Neutral leaning Support - This works ok but has a steeper learning curve than redirects. Auron May the odds be ever in your favor! 02:38,8/23/2015
Strong Support - I've seen this on the newer fanon wiki and I really like this one. ZeoSpark Talk Contribs Edits 00:18,8/13/2014
Comments
Regarding Option C, here is an example:
- Code
- {{Link|Mr. Krabs}}
- {{Link|SpongeBob}}
- Result
It's pretty simple. I don't understand why some see it as complicated. — AMK152 (Wall • Contrib) 15:55, July 19, 2014 (UTC)
Since I'm not a contributor here, I'll refrain from voting, but I wanted to share some additional reasons for using redirects.
- Some sources use first names, last names, or nicknames for the same character, linking to redirects for these names allows you to count how many times those names are used using Special:WhatLinksHere.
- It also means cleaner wikicode, as mentioned above.
- Piped links are also confusing to new users, I've seen many people edit the page name instead of the displayed text - best to keep things simple for new users.
- By keeping the link the same as the displayed text, it's easy to track the displayed text. For example, if I link [[Spongobob]], it's hard to miss, but Spongobob, it might make it through.
- If a section of an article is split for some reason, and there were some pages which linked directly to the section, there is no easy way to find those links and update them. But if redirects were used instead of section links, then they don't need to be updated.
- As I'm not familiar with this wiki, I can't offer specific examples here, but let's use a hypothetical example of "Spongebob's House". I imagine it probably already has an article, but imagine that once upon a time it didn't, and instead it had a section on the Spongebob article. It could be linked to using [[Spongebob#Spongebob's House|Spongebob's House]] or using the redirect [[Spongebob's House]]. Now, say that in some point the decision was made to split it into a dedicated "Spongebob's House" article, now you have a bunch of links to [[Spongebob#Spongebob's House|Spongebob's House]], but if redirects had been used, then they already pointed to [[Spongebob's House]].
- You can detect double and broken redirects, but you can't detect incorrect section links. The fact that using redirects causes double redirects when moved is a good thing, because it tells you what needs to be updated.
I hope this helps! -452 (talk) 17:43, July 25, 2014 (UTC)